the same is true of bill clinton. i was at the nsc as director for bill clinton. they didn't agreree on the midd eastiece process. and the role of hamas. and the role of arafat. mandela was critical of american policy across administrations on those issues. i don't think that political difference necessarily affected personal relationships. >> in some ways, bill keller, because he was such a practical man, i was struck by a quote you had in your obituary. of nelson mandela this week. where he was talking about what so many have remarked on. how he was able to appear free of hatred. he said hating clouds the mind, gets in the way of strategy. leaders cannot afford to hate. >> it was not an absence of hate on his part. it was a surplus of discipline. he was the most disciplined politician i have ever seen. he knew the difference between strategy and tactics. there were times you would see something bordering on loathing in his attitude towards de klerk and towards the head of the freedom party. he didn't like those guys very much. he was able to swallow that. tamp i